missroserose: (Jesus Stompage!)
[personal profile] missroserose
Although I tend to restrict myself to relatively few corners of the Internet, one thing that I've been seeing with alarming frequency is the hysteria regarding illegal immigrants that seems to be pervading our culture. Even in my relatively hermetic online existence (the only thing remotely resembling an online community that I read with any regularity is LiveJournal, and I rarely venture outside my sparse friendslist on such), it seems to be penetrating - I see articles about it on MSN when Messenger pops up, I see people arguing about it whenever the Snopes feed pops up with a related page, I see people flapping their hands in the air and acting desperate about something that has almost no bearing on their lives.

I understand that it's human nature to distrust people whom we perceive as Not Like Us, and thanks to centuries of nationalism that currently translates to "people who are not from our country". If this wasn't the USA, I could better understand why people so openly revile and fear those from other countries - millenia of living in small tribal groups that were almost constantly warring with each other has pretty well ingrained the "us against them" mentality into our system, to the point where it's as close to hardwired as you can get without going to the genetic level.

But this is the United States of America, a country that was founded on a higher ideal than that. Aren't we taught in school that this is the greatest country in the world, because anyone who is willing to work hard can get ahead and achieve wealth, regardless of their social background? Aren't we told that part of what makes our culture great is its diversity, its ability to allow people to live and love and worship and celebrate however their conscience dictates and still be part of something greater than themselves?

Reading some of the responses to the immigration debate, I find myself wondering if these people grew up in the same country that I did. Certainly, they say, they welcome immigrants who go through legal channels; it's simply the "border jumpers" that they hate, because obviously they're criminals or why wouldn't they go through the legal process? I somehow doubt any of these people have actually examined the legal process for becoming an American citizen, but it's a fantastically convoluted, inefficient and unfair system. I've had some limited contact with the case of a political refugee who fled his country and claimed asylum and whose case took more than a decade to come to completion, during which time he was in constant danger of being imprisoned or deported (which would've essentially been a death sentence). What heinous criminal activity did he engage in while waiting for his case to be confirmed or denied? When not being called to testify or hauled off to jail, he married, worked steadily, had children, and generally lived day to day like the rest of us. While somewhat less draconian in its implementation, our non-refugee immigration system is a mess, and hard enough for someone born in America to navigate, let alone someone unfamiliar with our customs, especially our inordinate fondness of paperwork. (I won't even get into the statistics as to the miserable portion of natural-born American citizens who can actually pass the citizenship test. I guess citizenship is as easy as anything else to take for granted when it's something you've always had.)

But aren't these people stealing our jobs? I fail to see the logic to this question. First off, when was the last time you saw an illegal immigrant (or, for that matter, a legal one) working in a job that you'd actually want? Agricultural, fast food, janitorial and maintenance - we need someone to do these low-paying, backbreaking and thankless jobs, as there sure as hell aren't very many Americans who will do them when (thanks to their language skills and education) they can get better-paying administrative positions with benefits. Secondly, the more people that there are in a given country, the more jobs are created - after all, they're going to want to eat and drink and consume merchandise and be entertained just like the rest of us.

Beyond all of this, though, is the source of the "problem". Consider for a moment the fear and danger that illegal immigrants go through on a daily business - fear of discovery and deportation, the danger of becoming sick and unable to support oneself with no safety net, the desperation of trying to make ends meet (and in some cases, send money back home) when one is limited to the most physically demanding and lowest-paying jobs our society offers. Not exactly a very rosy scenario, is it? Now consider how many people live through this on a daily basis, because to them it is a better situation that what they would have in their home country. Despite being among some of the most disadvantaged and trod-upon in our world, it's still a better life than they would have in the world that they're from. Have any of the people who constantly rail against illegal immigrants done anything to improve the situations in these countries? Volunteered for the Peace Corps? Donated to Amnesty International? Anything?

I think the saddest part of this whole debacle is how much humanity is lost in this constant arguing. The way some people talk, you'd think immigrants have horns and tails and pitchforks. The fact is, these are just people - maybe people from a different culture or background, but still people like you. There may be some criminals in the bunch (just as there are in our culture), but the vast, vast majority of them simply want to have some sort of stable existence where they can live day to day without fearing for their lives (be it through political change, starvation, or any number of reasons people come here). And because America (for all its flaws) is one of the greatest countries in the world, they come here, legally if they can, often illegally if they can't. How can we fault them for wanting something better for themselves?

A hundred years before I was born, a poet named Emma Lazarus wrote a sonnet about the Statue of Liberty, which sealed the statue's role (and our country's role) as welcoming to those who came from other lands seeking a better life for themselves. More than a century later, it seems the intent of her words are all but forgotten, lost in our fear of others whom we perceive as "not like us". Will we ever be able to forget that fear enough to once again justify Liberty's role as the welcoming mother of the desperate? Can we as a whole regain that attitude of optimism and abundance and tolerance that made us one of the greatest countries in the world, the place where so many potential immigrants dreamed of living? Can we conquer our smallmindedness and baser human instincts and find it within ourselves to take those next few ever-important steps toward a peaceful world society?

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

—Emma Lazarus, "The New Colussus", 1883


I can only hope.

Date: 2007-02-17 05:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jamesd.livejournal.com
Better let a lot of immigrants in. Someone is going to have to be working to support the retired baby-boomers who can't support themselves or are using tax-funded benefits of various sorts. It won't be the children of the baby-boomers: that generation is far too small.

Here the dependency ratio is going to double over the next 20 years: twice as many retired people being supported by each person in work. Unless there is a big infusion of younger people. That means immigrants or cross-generation fighting as the children try to retain the lifestyle of the parents by reducing benefits.

Date: 2007-02-17 05:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roseneko.livejournal.com
That's actually a really good point I hadn't considered. It's already becoming obvious that Social Security isn't going to be anywhere near the safety net it was originally supposed to be, thanks in no small part to various political parties raiding it every ten years. Given that our country is increasingly mobile and specialized, we can't assume that people have family nearby to act as a support structure when they fall on hard times (illness, disaster, etc.), which means we need more social programs in place, and somebody's gotta fund that.

It actually makes in very much the same way the "legalize marijuana" argument makes sense - instead of spending so much time, money and effort trying to keep them out, make it easy for them to get in and tax them. (I could give some credence to a lot of folks' views that illegals are just trying to avoid taxes if it didn't require such an inhuman effort to become a naturalized citizen...) Suddenly a drain on society becomes a source of income, and we can maybe focus our efforts on things like helping developing nations improve themselves so their citizens don't keep showing up here. =)

Date: 2007-02-17 06:43 am (UTC)
alexmegami: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexmegami
The funny thing is, a lot of them aren't. What they'll do (since you often need an SSN to work) is a bunch will use the same SSN, and they'll all diligently pay taxes for that SSN in order to avoid audits.

That's a quick summary of an article I read a while back.

Date: 2007-02-17 05:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] errant-variable.livejournal.com
I have what I consider to be legitimate beefs against illegal immigrants:

-Taxes. I pay them. They, not existing in the "system", quite often don't.

-Not having to pay taxes, they can work for lower wages, often under the table, and are therefore more desirable as a hiree than your truly.

-It's more than possible for immigrant cultures to visit discrimination on nonimmigrants once they become powerful enough - not that it is not deserved in some cases, but it is no less wrong.

-The phrase "a job Americans will not take" is, in my opinion, an utter fallacy.

-My biggest beef with immigrants: they try to apply the culture they bring to the environment they are immigrating to. This doesn't apply to many, but when I see photos of people rallying far north of the Rio Grande and waving red/white/green flags, or have a customer try to bend the rules through a poor understanding of English... yea, I'm more than a little tweaked. Sure, don't forget where you're from, but don't forget where you are now either.

Date: 2007-02-17 06:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roseneko.livejournal.com
-As stated above, I would consider the "taxes" argument to have a little more merit if it weren't so hellishly difficult to actually become a naturalized citizen (or even get to the point where you can work legally, especially if you come from a third world country). Let them get a SSN# (or green card, or equivalent) easily so that they can work legally and pay taxes (and are covered under workplace safety laws and such), and let's see how many of them choose the illegal route.

-They may be more desirable, but the employer runs the risk of prosecution from the government. In addition, so far as the workers themselves are concerned, because they don't "exist" they are open to all sorts of exploitation that legal workers are at least nominally protected from - hazardous environments, requests for sexual favors, minimum wage laws, etc. If the person has the choice between working legally and being covered under such laws (especially if the promise of eventual citizenship are involved), and being an illegal and therefore ripe for exploitation, I think I can guess what the majority of them would pick.

-True, but this is a universal human problem, not one that rests solely with immigrants (they're simply in a position uniquely suited to showing it). I really don't see how immigration factors into this - racism is wrong, period, and stopping immigration is hardly going to solve the problem. More education and contact between cultures is key.

-Note that I specifically did not say that Americans wouldn't take these jobs. I simply said that natural-born citizens, with their better language skills and such, would be much more able to get higher-paying jobs - hence the large turnover rate in lower-paying positions. What it really comes down to, however, is that the job should go to the people who will do the best job at it. You yourself noticed that the McD's in downtown, which is generally staffed by an ever-changing roster of teenagers and seniors, has crappier food and is generally more run down than the sparkling clean Filipino-run branch in the Valley. I sincerely doubt that most of the people complaining about immigrants taking our jobs would do better work.

-This is a tricky question, and I think it's the one that's most responsible for the grievous state of our immigration system today. It is difficult to keep that balance of assimilation into a new culture while keeping your own identity, and the nationalistic "us against them" mentality certainly can apply to transplanted citizens vs. natural citizens. I think what's going to be key to this, though, is changing our attitude as a nation - when we look at new people with hostility and fear, of course they're going to be defensive and unwilling to learn. If, however, we can show them that we don't think of them differently than anyone else in this country - that they have the same rights and responsibilities as a natural-born citizen - then I would hazard a guess that they'll be much more excited to adopt the customs of their new home. Look at places that are traditional immigrant destinations, like New York - there are entire sections of folk from Italy, folk from Spain, folk from Ireland, etc., and rather than chanting about nationalistic pride, they help each other fit in and make the adjustment to their new environment.

As with so many other things, what it comes down to is the Golden Rule. If we send out respect and welcome, I'm certain that what we'll get back from the majority of folk is gratefulness and willingness to accommodate.

Date: 2007-02-18 05:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jamesd.livejournal.com
You understate the power of immigrants to take over a culture. There have been two prominent examples where they also took over a large chunk of land for their own country: Texas (taken from Mexico after Mexico invited in US settlers) and Israel (carved out of the rest of Palestine after legal immigration was swelled by illegal immigration).

The easy way to hire illegal immigrants is to make them produce forged papers. Then you can employ them and you and they pay taxes, while you are shielded from prosecution for having hired them.

You haven't seen the 4th of July celebrations US citizens hold abroad, have you? Everyone celebrates their origins and brings parts of their culture that they particularly appreciate with them. In London you can even find some housing which is wired for US 110 volts with US sockets even though the Europen standard is 240.

Date: 2007-02-17 06:50 am (UTC)
alexmegami: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexmegami
I find the argument about "remember where you are" a little weird. We DO have people here marching up and down streets chanting about nationalistic pride. And other kinds of pride. Frequently. People cheer for their "home team" during the Euro/World cup - which is never the Canadians (because we never get in to the finals ;). About the only thing sports-wise we come together on is Olympic hockey. Our universities are filled with clubs for people from different countries - the Asian Alliance, Pakistani Student Club, whatever.

But if anyone tried to tell these people that they weren't Canadian, they would get a fucking shock. (And, I hope, a rude rejoinder.)

Because they/we ARE Canadian. But we ARE ALSO connected to where we came from. Hell, I was BORN here and I still consider myself part-Italian and part-English. This is not an either/or dichotomy. One can be proud of one's home country and one's country of citizenship both. Loudly, even.

Date: 2007-02-25 04:39 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Rose, I can tell you're honestly trying to understand this, and the one insight I can offer is that the heat on this issue comes from Mexican cultural norms and values clashing with American cultural norms and values. I'll be thinking of you up there safe in Alaska the next time I am painting over gang graffitti.
Paul (a Browncoat if that makes a difference)

Date: 2007-02-25 04:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roseneko.livejournal.com
Hey Paul,

Thanks for dropping by. If you don't mind my asking, how did you end up here? It's been a while since I really contributed anything to the Firefly fansites...

Cultural differences can account for a lot of problems, true. But I'd hardly think they'd be insurmountable. I spent a lot of time in Barrow a couple years back, a place that (aside from being one of the coldest places on Earth) has a lot of culture clash between the Inupiat natives and the more Western culture (which is a fairly recent incursion). However, both modes have thought have adapted to coexist more or less peacefully with each other. I like to think that that's possible with the Mexican and American cultures, too - though I'll be the first to admit that it's going to be much tougher in poorer areas where gang violence and such is common.

What has your experience been like in this arena? I gather from your comment that you've had rather more direct experience than I have, so I'd be interested to hear your stories.

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